We ended Part I by asking the question that if you have a healthy, loving relationship between two members of the same sex then what can possibly be wrong with allowing them to marry? If your a Christian, the answer is obvious; not only should they not marry but they shouldn't even be engaged in the act. If your not a Christian the answer is not so obvious as you do not have a direct commandment from God. But I do believe that there are moral, philosophical and societal reasons why homosexuals should not get married, much less even be involved sexually.
Before we begin to discuss these arguments against homosexuality I would like to dispel some damn nonsense that I hear on a regular basis that is dispensed from the mouths of normally rather intelligent human beings. It goes something like this, "Each to his own." or "I should be able to do what I want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else." or worse, "There is no such thing as morality."
When someone says "Each to his own" he or she is telling me that they are doing things they know they shouldn't be doing but plan on continue doing them anyway. This maxim is usually tolerated until you become a terrorist, serial killer or a dictator bent on world destruction. If this mantra is true then why shouldn't serial killers be allowed to operate in peace? Oh, because they hurt other people. So this nonsense about everyone should be allowed to do what they want to do means as long as they don't hurt other people. But this doesn't hold true either because people who live by this mantra commit adultery and divorce their spouses but feel they should have the freedom to do this even though it leaves a trail of devastated lives behind them. When someone says "Each to his own" let me translate; "I will do whatever the hell I want and I really don't care whom it hurts." Society simply has limits on what type of pain you are allowed to inflict and this has changed throughout time and culture. Murder is still disallowed in most civilized societies but until the last fifty years adultery was severally punished by the courts in the form of alimony; alas this has sadly since stopped. Men are now free to leave their wife's and go play without penalty (and vice verse). Until Christianity infected and eventually overwhelmed Roman civilization it was common for fathers to turn their backs on new born infants; a sign the child was not wanted and was to be killed. Infanticide is no longer tolerated in just about every modern culture (outside the womb).
Morality is relative even in cases where it is not obvious others are being affected. I can think of no other better example than the two current demonized activities of smoking and obesity. Although not outright outlawed to the extent of say, smoking pot, it has become so repressive to smoke it might as well be and my once a month cigar habit may not be available much longer. And my wife says, 'Amen!'. Smoking generally affects mainly the smoker himself (despite the persistent myth of second hand smoke) and his immediate family. Yet our society pretty much demands that this practice be abandoned.
Obesity is another example of a personal behavior that is no longer tolerated by society. It too lacks direct laws against it but they might as well pass them and parents who allow their children to become grossly overweight now face intrusion from the governments, rightly or wrongly.
Now some of you will argue that smoking does affect everyone and does have an impact in higher health costs to society as a whole and so does obesity. To which I say, exactly. Society does feel that certain behaviors are unacceptable because although there may not be direct harm to other individuals society as a whole takes it in the chin for these behaviors (I would include drug and alcohol abuse in this category).
This is exactly why homosexuality cannot and should not be tolerated in society and at best accepted but not condoned. They definitely should not be allowed to marry or form legal unions.
Homosexuality, at its very core and very essence is based upon one thing; selfishness. Homosexuality is the revelation that one can have his or her sexual needs satisfied with a member of the same sex versus a member of the opposite sex. This may not seem like a big deal in its impact on individuals, society or mankind in general but from a philosophical and moral standpoint there are implications for any society that condones such behavior. Some of you are threatening to fall asleep at this point. Stay with me, it's important you get this because your probably not hearing this argument anywhere else. Not even in the Church.
The first thing homosexuality destroys is the relationship between men and women. I was buying my son a replacement phone for the one he lost when the AT&T rep saw my wife and I interacting about how much money to spend on the boy (always a sore point between us) when the rep confided to me he was gay because it allowed him not to have to deal with the opposite sex. I confided to him I completely sympathized with his choice. I am unfortunately attracted to the female form and another hairy man's rear end does nothing for me (not to mention I am a born again Christian) so I am forced to deal with this deep dark mystery known as the female mind on a daily basis. Anyone who thinks men and women are compatible has never been married for more than three weeks. Marriage is not bliss; it is two sinners who cannot understand each other one iota forced to compromise and forgive on a regular basis and those are on the good days. Bad marriages are probably one of the closest representations of Hell we will have on Earth. I may have inadvertently converted some recent divorcee's with that last statement.
Homosexuals avoid the complications and general frustration of dealing with the opposite sex yet while allowing their sexual desires to be met. Selfishness pure and simple. No more selfish than a man who uses women as sex objects and discards them but still selfish. Both behaviors are wrong and neither should be tolerated.
The second way homosexuality is selfish is the avoidance of reproduction. For you 'naturalists' and 'Neo-Darwinist' out there please note that homosexuality in nature is rare and usually dealt with harshly. There is a very good reason for this; from an evolutionary standpoint it's a dead end. If a species mutates a homosexual gene that gene will last one generation as there will be no offspring to carry the gene forward. Please note that I am not discussing bisexuality, another topic we will discuss in Part III. I'm talking true homosexuals who do not find the opposite sex attractive.
Homosexuality in a society is detrimental to the existence of that society. Marriage is a contractual agreement that is the core building blocks of all successful civilizations. You may not like this truth but you cannot, as much as you try, to remove it. All civilizations that have become wealthy and have tinkered with this core building block no longer exist. Six thousand years of human history has taught us that successful cultures and civilizations require a man and a woman to enter a contract of sexual exclusiveness and for those two to be the main teachers to their offspring of their culture and morals. All other attempts, capitalism, socialism, communism, liberalism, ad nausea, have failed to find a better system to allow a civilization to expand and preserve its culture at the same time. In fact, all these systems can only achieve any type of success as long as the core family unit is healthy. The test on whether a civilization is on its way out is easy; whose teaching and raising the children, the parents or other forces?
I don't think I want to apply this test to our present culture.
The problem with homosexuality is that it attacks, whether intentional or not; the core building block of any successful civilization; the family unit. Homosexuality breeds contempt for traditional values for it is itself a deviancy that allows an indeed demands for sexual exploration. Homosexuals claim they have the same traditional values between couples but their lifestyles betray them and the level of promiscuity in their relationships approaches legendary status. They will point to heterosexual couples who are promiscuous but fail to acknowledge that those couples are not looked upon fondly by society as a whole (at least until recently). Again, both are wrong and neither is right.
And neither is the environment to raise children. An acquaintance of mine related to me childhood memories of a strange men and women being at the breakfast table on a regular basis. He is still dealing with the devastation it wrought on his childhood mind and he has serious trust issues in his relationships not to mention that he is attracted to women who tend towards this behavior even though he is desperately looking for a stable long term relationship. My message is to sexual deviants is simple; don't have children. You have no damn business doing so.
Even though homosexuals preach peaceful co-existence with traditional family values it is at best delusional and at worse a deceptive farce. Anyone who disagrees with this statement has never attended a homosexual rally (I mean, really, did you need to use the rainbow for crying out loud, is it not bad enough that you have already destroyed the word gay). They are as much a anti-marriage rally as a pro-gay rally which is a rather confusing stance in my view; I am against traditional marriage but want the right to participate in the exercise. I mean, really?
And herein lies the rub. Homosexuals want the benefits of marriage but without the requirements. They want the ring and the federal laws and tax benefits and legitimacy that comes with marriage but they want to participate in a promiscuous lifestyle in the meantime. They want to raise children but if you can't even commit to the boundaries of traditional marriage then you have no business raising children (this holds true for heterosexual couples as well).
Why? Because a marriage that is healthy propagates a society and its culture and can raise healthy children that can take care of themselves and the society they live in cannot, will not and never will be based upon selfishness which all sexual deviancy (adultery, homosexuality, bisexuality, gender changers, etc) is rooted in. A society that is based upon and promotes selfishness over valor and sacrifice will not survive. Period.
There is one lest defense for homosexuality. It's the modern day version of 'the devil made me do it'. There are some that argue that homosexuality is a gene and since its genetic then they cannot help themselves and so we cannot stop that which is natural. Well, you will probably be shocked to learn that I actually agree that it is probably genetic (there is, by the way, no proof of the 'gay gene' whatsoever) and you will also be shocked to learn that I believe that even if it is I do not believe that makes a difference.
We will discuss this in Part III
Update: Response To Comments on Homosexuality Part II
Just one question, how do you know that homosexuals can help their liking ?ReplyDelete
Just as you would like a woman and not like a man, do you really think that they can switch? What if its something they cannot change?
"A society that is based upon and promotes selfishness over valor and sacrifice will not survive. Period."ReplyDelete
If you're so into sacrifice, why don't you give up the time and money you sunk into writing down these selfish arguments using your pricey technology and give it to a worthy cause?
1. Statistically, your marriage will probably be ruined by lust and greed. It would be good to focus your efforts on making that work instead of telling others their relationships shouldn't.ReplyDelete
2. You will probably continue to be ignorant of the destruction caused by your bigotry.
A middle-aged realist trying to navigate his way in a prideful society.
First off, very nice blog! Your site has a really cool feel to it. I love the design and the background image is awesome!ReplyDelete
Secondly (and more to the point), I think "to each his own" works perfectly in this situation because, much like smoking and obesity, sexuality is none of anyone's business except for the parties involved. This is why public smoking is prohibited just like public copulation. It is simply inappropriate. There are no limits on how much a person may eat but with all of these things, one accepts the consequences for themselves when they commit the act. Adultery is still punishable inasmuch as the parties involved enter into a classic marriage contract which strips the unfaithful party of most of its rights in child custody and alimony cases.
The deterioration of the family unit has sadly been occurring since a time previous to your acknowledgement of the world's existence since you have chosen to accept the prideful view that a mere mortal of less than 100 years old can determine the age of the earth even when that alleged age is 60 times older than any living person. (The idea that the planet is only 6000 years old is frankly a joke) But the actual problem that the world is approaching is overpopulation with limited resources, not that we're not making enough babies. Your idea that gay men are scared of women is simple silliness considering that most homosexual men have fantastic relationships with women and even those who are not naturally attracted to the same sex but chose to be gay usually did so because of poor male to male relations. I was a psych major, so I'm probably a little more up to speed on this one. I don't blame you. I doubt that you're going to gain much traction with the selfishness argument either since by that same logic, masturbation is the greatest selfishness no matter if it is to hetero or homo-erotic imaginations.
If I were you, I'd do a little research outside of the church bookstore if you are genuinely interested in "navigating through this secular society"
I have to disagree with quite a bit of what is said here. Firstly, you define homosexuality as "the revelation that one can have his or her sexual needs satisfied with a member of the same sex versus a member of the opposite sex." This is an unfair definition because it suggests that Homosexual relationships are built entirely and solely off of sex, and that there is no emotional aspect of it.ReplyDelete
This unfairness of definition comes out later when you state "The first thing homosexuality destroys is the relationship between men and women. " and "Homosexuals avoid the complications and general frustration of dealing with the opposite sex yet while allowing their sexual desires to be met." What are you forgetting is that Homosexuals could be in a relationship with a person of their own gender because they have legitimate and powerful feelings for that person, not just as a cowardly evasion tactic against the opposite gender.
Next your statements about the 'homosexual lifestyle' are unfair stereotype. Firstly your source on the matter contains two statistics that are not more then ten years old, and neither of those have anything to do with the 'negative homosexual lifestyle', and secondly, it is a rash generalization that ignores a massive percentage of perfectly moral gay people. One could just as easily point to the rash of young devout Christian youths having anal sex to maintain their 'purity'. Obviously there are far more Christian teens staunchly devoted to abstinence, but these are not the ones that make it on the news or TV. The truth is for every one promiscuous party gay, there are ten perfectly normal and upright homosexuals who you just don't hear about or know because (oddly enough) they're entirely normal.
Next your personal account of a friend who was traumatized by promiscuous parents, while heart touching, is unfortunately balanced by my several friends, un-traumatized and raised by gay parents to be upright and decent people with strong morals.
Next, you seem to confuse the message of some for the message of all: "They are as much a anti-marriage rally as a pro-gay rally which is a rather confusing stance in my view; I am against traditional marriage but want the right to participate in the exercise. I mean, really?" I would suggest this is because those who are at the anti-marriage rally's are not the ones asking for marriage. Surely you would say that the large number of Christian pro-gay factions attending Gay Pride parades do not speak for all christians?
Again, here you make unfair assumptions: "They want the ring and the federal laws and tax benefits and legitimacy that comes with marriage but they want to participate in a promiscuous lifestyle in the meantime." Not all homosexuals, in fact most homosexuals, are not particularly promiscuous. They want marriage because they want society to recognize that they love and care for their partner, and if they love and care for their partner, they do not want to go off and find other partners any more then you do with your wife.
Well, I think you're way off the mark. While I do agree with your "evolutionary dead end" statement, that's about all I agree with. Which is ironic because "born again Christians" are not supposed to believe in evolution in the first place. Now personal beliefs aside (I consider myself a thrice born Buddhist)I think your first error in reason is your interpretation of "each to his own". You could look at it as a statement of selfishness, and I would agree many people who say it are indeed selfish, but every statement, much like every person has a dualistic nature. When I hear "each to his own" I think each of us exploring and discovering out true selves and our true spiritual nature. Not everyone is meant to be what they are right now, either professionally, socially, sexually, etc. etc. But the process of becoming is powerful and universal. We all grow, we all change, and hopefully we all become more mature and wise. Now, secondly to pigeonhole gay, bi, trans-gender people as across the board selfish tells me you don't know very many of them. Thirdly to propose that GBT's have all conveniently made a "choice" really tells me you don't know very many of them. As for the gay sales clerk's quip, hey, we all make bad jokes I personally make more than most. Now I will share my own personal anecdotal view on the subject.ReplyDelete
My mother, who ironically thinks of herself as a Conservative Christian Republican, took my sister and I to see the "Blue Lagoon" in 1980 when I was five and she was nine. The first time I saw Brooke Shields I knew right then and there I was straight, I was absolutely obsessed with women from that point on. Even if I had been molested (which I think is a pretty lame excuse for why someone may be gay)it would not have quenched my thirst to be intimate with femininity. Not to toot my own horn, I'm a pretty manly man, I love guns, and fishing, and, machines, and Hemingway, so my desire to be intimate with femininity in no way made me more feminine. If anything it increased my desire to be masculine in hopes of attracting the opposite. As far as monogamy is concerned - I'm all for it! My personal beef is with the "sex industry" gay or straight. Why? Because when you pay for sex, or pay to watch it, or watch someone else do it, you are not learning a thing. Sex should be the reward for being patient, kind, loving, receptive, and understanding to another person's needs, physical, emotional and spiritual. A shared experience of joy and passion. Personally I know few gay or straight couples who have it right, and plenty who have it wrong. As far as genetics go... Genetic science is still in its infancy, and I won't claim to know the final answer, but I will tell you this. I have smelled lots of sweaty people in my life, and I mean lots! The ones who turned my stomach were straight men and gay women. When I walk into a men's locker room I want to throw up, but my gay guy friends feel the opposite. I really don't think we can choose which smells to feel queezy over. Oppositely the "intimate smell" of a woman is the single most intoxicating smell I can think of, better than any perfume or flower. Next I find it impossible to believe that anyone born a man would choose to be gay. It just does not compute, given our hardwired predisposition to "fit in". I give lesbos a pass because I have at least one thing in common with them. Also as far as selfishness vs. valor and sacrifice, queers make the best soldiers the world has ever known, Greeks, Romans, Samurai, Amazons, the French. I rest my case. Lastly to answer the question of whether or not they should be allowed to marry - Why not? The hypocrisy in your opinion is that they shouldn't marry because they are promiscuous, which is what I've heard my whole life, but in my experience, everyone is, has been or would like to be at different stages of their life. when I was a teenager, well I was a teenager, then I was in a committed relationship for ten years, and never strayed once. Now I'm single again, hey, it is what it is. It wasn't my choice for the relationship to end, but it did. I'm not going to deny myself intimacy with the feminine because of forces beyond my control and I won't begrudge anyone else the same (or opposite as the case may be)ReplyDelete
This whole Christian thing is old.
Homosexuality has been around forever. People just never made it public because everybody thought it would be weird.
But we're growing into a generation of more possibilities, you old fart.
I'd much rather live in a more ACCEPTING world, rather than YOUR world of closed-mindedness.
You are such a hypocrite.
I mean, you heard of what your fellow Christians did, right? What kind of church goes in front of soldiers funerals and pickets? What kind of Christianity is THAT? Is that what you do?
I don't have anything against religion.
It's just when they get into other people's lives, and RUIN it for EVERYBODY is when it bothers me.
Go to some charity to help find a cure for breast cancer or something.
Don't get all worked up about love. No matter what the love looks like to you. Someone might look at you and your wholesome wife and think "Wow, they're ugly."
Please, keep your opinions to yourself. You wouldn't want some stranger walking up to you and saying that to you, right? You'd think "What's their problem?"
Well. That's what homosexuals are thinking as people like you randomly attack them.
Please, don't be closed-minded. God is supposed to love everyone. Why would he hate something he created?
To Anonymous Posted 6/16/10 12:18 AM:ReplyDelete
1. Just because homosexuality has been around forever doesn't justify it. So has incest and murder.
2. I totally agree that what those so called 'Christians' did with the military was terrible. This comes from a terrible interpretation of the Bible. The Bible does NOT say 'Thou shall not kill', it says 'Thou shall not MURDER'. If a criminal comes in my house to hurt myself or my family and I kill him in defending the house its justified. I could write an entire post on this but you get the drift.
3. Do not confuse Love with lust. Love is based on commitment, not on sexual desire. This is why we don't allow daughters to marry fathers, sons to marry mothers.
4. Not attacking homosexuals. Attacking the act. As a Christian saved by grace, I'm commanded to Love. Period. No exceptions.
5. God loves us, and he does not hate homosexuals. Part IV is going to go into how God feels about homosexuals and how Christians should respond (it won't be the way you think).
To Anonymous Posted 6/15/10 12:05 AM:ReplyDelete
There is no doubt that some people have a tendency towards homosexuality. In Part III I will discuss this in greater detail. However, just to let you know that there are plenty of homosexuals who are now happily married with the opposite sex. If homosexuality was genetic to the point that you could not change then there would never be one documented case of people changing their sexual orientation.
To Scott Posted 6/15/10 12:16 AM:ReplyDelete
I do. But as a Christian I am called to make proclaim the Gospel and to make disciples of all men.
I teach Sunday school and help with homeless both financially and with my time.
To Pete Posted 6/15/10 12:20 AMReplyDelete
Coming up on 20 years with no end in site (except death).
Forgive me if I appear arrogant, not the objective. The objective is to get people to think about why our society today is trying to get our culture to accept homosexuality.
As far was telling people what NOT to do, our society does this on a regular bases. God sets boundaries for us not to be a cosmic killjoy but to protect us from getting hurt.
To Nahshon Posted 6/15/10 12:27 AM:ReplyDelete
Good comments. Couple of points:
1. Masturbation is the ultimate selfishness. That is why I stopped :) (There is nothing in the Bible directly against masturbation).
2. No civilization in the history of mankind has survived by decreasing its population. You don't grow, you die, that simple.
3. Agreed that homosexuality is just one of a long line of issues attacking the family unit. However, I would argue its particularly devastating due to the fact that it questions the very structure and sanctity of marriage itself.
Good Morning, Art!ReplyDelete
1. I don't think that masturbation is wrong. As a matter of fact, I think it's necessary and about as natural as 11 percent of the world population being attracted to the same sex. There is a LARGE contingent of Christianity who believe that Onan was struck dead for masturbating, but that is another theological discussion for another day. But do keep in mind, that you are in the minority when you say that the Bible doesn't condemn it.
2. No civilization in the history of mankind HAS or WILL survive. Death is a part of life, one of the most important parts as a matter of fact. It teaches us to value time, our possessions, and most importantly each other. We will die. Will we die as people who hated each other for something as silly as who we are and aren't attracted to? Also, the Chinese civilization (which far predates us) have shown us what happens when you exist for that long: At some point population control becomes an issue. Also, if you think these folks are so morally wayward, why would you want them raising kids anyway?
3. I didn't say that homosexuality was attacking the family unit, so you can't agree. And sanctity is tied to the idea of sanctification, a religious concept about something being held especially as an honor to one's G-d. I don't think marriage should be sanctified, I think it should be secularized. So I guess we're never gonna agree on that...but remember that if you want marriage "sanctified" then you don't believe in the separation of Church and State...so maybe China is the place for you
Also, I want to add that these types of discussions can become heated from time to time. But the personal attacks are unnecessary and over the line.ReplyDelete
Art doesn't represent all Christians and shouldn't be held responsible for their actions just like I don't represent all Reformed Jews. Let's all just exchange ideas with civility and attempt to engage one another with intelligence, good humor, (maybe a little sarcasm), and understanding.
You're getting murder and incest into homosexuality, why?ReplyDelete
Homosexuals get killed because of their sexual orientation.
You know, this is the SAME exact thing as racism and sexism.
Black people were brought down upon because of the color of their skin by white people, for a long time. They got killed and beaten and abused.
But now, society accepts them as people, like they should have been in the first place. Of course, there are still racist people. People look at racist people and think "Wow, what a sad sight."
Women were brought down because they were women. Apparently, men were the higher species.
But now, society accepts them equally. But of course, we're not fully there yet. There's all sorts of things going on with sexism that I'm not going to get into now. But for the most part, women now have jobs and don't have to be stay at home wives.
And now, people think homosexuality is wrong. Why? Because it is inhumane and ungodly or whatever you people think.
I am hoping that by the time I have kids, that by the time they grow up and have kids of their own... or ADOPT, since they might be gay, that our society will finally accept homosexuals as people too.
They are people. They should have rights.
"Homosexuals avoid the complications and general frustration of dealing with the opposite sex yet while allowing their sexual desires to be met. Selfishness pure and simple. No more selfish than a man who uses women as sex objects and discards them but still selfish. Both behaviors are wrong and neither should be tolerated."
Christians like you avoid the world as it is.
You are selfish for disregarding the LOVE of homosexuals.
I love my boyfriend. My lesbian friend loves her girlfriend.
I look at us both, and I think "What is different? We both kiss our partner, we both hold hands with our partner, we both talk to our partner, we both take pictures with our partner, and we both look at our partner's in the eye. What is society's problem?"
'Art' is a pretty gay name.ReplyDelete
You are clearly bigoted and biased based on generalizations, stereotypes, and a misguided sense of what constitutes morality.ReplyDelete
Firstly, you are writing under the misconception that reproduction is the basis of humanity. I'm sorry, but the ability to create children is not the sole reason for existence. You're basically saying that gay people, sterile people, people with sexually limiting physical disabilities and the like are virtually useless to society if they cannot have children. What a ludicrous and abhorrent notion.
Secondly, you are also operating under the assumption that same-sex couples are incapable of committing to each other the way opposite-sex couples have been LEGALLY ALLOWED TO DO since the dawn of time. This is preposterous to me. You have no right to make such a disgusting and closed-minded statement based on the ever increasing rate of cheating and divorce among straight couples. PEOPLE choose whether or not to commit to each other; it has nothing to do with sexual preference. There are many committed gay couples.
Thirdly, the idea that a same-sex couple can't raise children the way an opposite-sex couple can is also misguided and incorrect. In fact, based on a recent study, children with lesbian parents are more well-adjusted than children with straight parents. Link: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1994480,00.html
Fourth, you must take your religion out of the equation. There are numerous types of religions in the world and just because your bible says one thing, doesn't mean the rest of the world follows suit. Get over it.
Fifth, how dare you claim that homosexuals are sexual deviants that cannot commit to each other based on your assumption that all they want to do is have sex. If you go by that logic, then straight couples are just as deviant! Have you never met a man or woman that cheated on their spouse for sex? Again, it's PEOPLE who choose to commit to each other.
Lastly, I find your snide little comments about how "[homosexuals] have already destroyed the word gay" to point in favor of your post being a run of the mill hate-rant. You are terrified of those who are different than you and have not done any research in trying to understand what you're writing about: homosexuality. Try Google -- or better yet, why don't you pick up a book?